My question is about liver protection. I`ve been told a few times on here about liv 52. My question is what`s the difference between liv 52 and liv 52ds and which one should I be using? Comments and advice greatly appreciated. Thanks
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EQhead User profile Expert
DS is double strength. If your labs are good on regular Liv52, you won`t need the DS. I run Liv52 during cycle and my values have been in a healthy range.
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Cyclone User profile Expert
What EQhead said, you can do the math on the regular vs double strength and decide what works best for you. Also check out NAC for liver protection, it can be purchased as any store where vitamins or supplements are sold.
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Dr. Scott User profile Expert
liv52DS is just double the strength some guys feel the regular is a bit under dosed, not sure if i agree but i do use the DS just because its a bit more cost effective and anytime i can take one less pill or one less injection i prefer it. I do take the DS twice a day with food because for me, it can cause a bit of a sour stomach if i dont, but not everyone has this problem. I have found that all of these liver protectants, wont reverse it. Time to cut back or stop for me. I`m just saying simpley taking one of these doesnt men you can then take 6 anadrol 50`s a day for 16 weeks. There is also a liquid but it is a bit more expensive compared to the others and contains a fair amount of sugar if you have diabetes or watching sugar closely. Some say the liquid is more bioavailable and i suppose that is plausible but have no idea. hope this helps good luckwhile some like Liv 52 have a fair amount of science and studies behind them as well as anecdotal evidence they are still just a stop gap, and when my liver values start trending upwards all the liv52, TUDCA or NAC wo
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nickname_311 User profile
DS stands for double strength I`ve been taking them and I feel better already from being on cycle of my orals
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nickname_311 User profile
Since everyone has already answered it I`m going to put my answer DS stands for dick strength how many lbs of a giant woman can you hold up.
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JohnSmith User profile
Either will do, DS is double strength hepatospecific formulation, designed for the treatment and management of liver disorders. If you plan on taking orals take either at the suggested dose and drink plenty of water.
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JD Cycle User profile Expert
It`s double strength. I would recommend Liv52 with NAC and possibly TUDCA instead. If you`re taking a moderate dose of Win, Liv52 should be fine. I use Livercare (similar to liv52) for mild orals and add NAC and TUDCA to it as I can get them all relatively quicker.
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Hi Guys- It`s been YEARS since I`ve done any gear. I`ve been on TRT for almost 8 years. I was thinking of adding some Winstrol and or Clen to my TRT to enhance fat loss/strength and to get my feet wet again. I`ve responded well in the past with Wintsrol and my diet is on point. Not looking for size as knees and back feel better when not carrying too much size. I`m over 50 and competition is no longer the goal.Any suggestions? Stay with TRT and add Winstrol and or Clen (or any other suggestions)? Hit pause on TRT and do something else? What`s the best school of thought, add to TRT or hit pause on TRT and do something else and go back to TRT when cycle is completed?Like I said, it`s been awhile and welcome all advice.
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skitt User profile
Nice nice nice.. Well if you use to compete and have experience in cycling then I would think you have the majority of important info down man.. so if not looking for sign just a bit of strength and cutting up I would personally just up your test then from your TRT dose, maybe bump it up to 400 mg a week and see how you feel with that.. I would also go with the Winstrol over the Clen for strength and fat loss, Plus the whinny will lower your SHBG which will help the test you have in ya work even better, more free form.. All depending if you want to run the whinny on the front side or the back side sounds like the decision to make here.. Up the test for 10 to 12 weeks and run the whinny at moderate dose for 6, maybe 8 weeks depending on your dose hen once you are finished with your cycle just drop back down to your TRT dose for a few months to give receptors a break take a look at your results and go from there.. goood luck bro
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Zilla User profile
Up your trt dose to 500. Add in winstrol for 6 weeks and keep your test dose at 500 for 10-12 wks before dropping back to trt dosage. Get an ai in case you experience sides from the increased test
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POOKIE2 User profile
Oral anabolics are pretty short lived meaning it`s safe up to the 5 or 6 week mark depending on dose and type of oral. Also orals are not fat burners and diet is a big part of making Winny or Var successful in shredding up. Clen is mega dangerous and unless you are trying to get into competition shape or under a true 15% there are many other safer options. I agree with Zilla above to just up your test dose….possibly double it…and jump on some light cardio a few times a week. If you do those two things plus watch what you eat you`ll see good results.
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JohnSmith User profile
At your age and goals of maintaining healthy joints I`d suggest anavar. It`ll be much more beneficial to your health and goals.
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JamesEarl User profile Expert
Anavar for strength, prevents joint dryness unlike winstrol. Primobolan not for strength or size but quality gains. But jack up testosterone to like 400mg-500mg weekly. Oral turinabol is dry lean gains and good for strength. But orals need be avoided past 6 weeks. Good luck!
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villageidiot User profile
Thanks Guys! I appreciate all of you taking the time to help out an old fella like myself! I`ll implement info that you guys presented here! You brought up fond memories of Primo! One of my favorites!It`s great to see how educated you guys are, back in the day, we`d just inject and ask questions later. So, if I could ever give advice to younger guys about gear is listen to guys like yourself and be safe about it.
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Looking foward to my next cycle and adding in Winny my last 6 weeks of cycle. I will be doing a 12 week cycle, test cyp 300mg a week, tren e 200mg a week, proviron 50mg a day and starting week 6 until 12 I will be adding Winny 30mg a day. First question, is proviron ok to run with Winny at same time? Next question is I`ve heard so many mixed reviews about Winny being good and bad. I really want to try for myself because I know everyone is different. Does 30mg a day for 6 weeks sound ok for my first addition of Winny?
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Zach Linder User profile Expert
First off, good cycle. Good doses and good length of time. Proviron would be great to run with this, and will not have a bad interaction with winny. 30mg of winny is sufficient and you will get results. Some people don`t like winny because of the negative sides (joints are uncomfortable, very androgenic sides, etc) or because they aren`t at a low enough body fat to reap the full benefits of winny. Just make sure you have your ancillaries and liver support. You`ll be good to go. Good luck
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Pookie User profile
Yes you can run proviron the whole time and winny at the end. Im personally not a fan of winny since there are other orals the provide the same benefits without the drying of the joints. I if you are a heavy lifter winny is not a good idea unless you are not prone to dry joints or are taking deca or NPP. But you said it best, the only way to know is to run it and see how it does. 30 mgs is pretty low…after a few weeks I would recommend bumping to the minimum effective dosage of 50 mgs a daily to see if it provides better support.
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Dr Scott User profile Expert
I agree with zach but Doses a little low…for me. I would add a hundred mg to each, BUT i am a big fan of the lowest possible effective dose so if it works for you run it. The only time i ever run 2 orals is if one of them is proviron, it really is a good addition to most cycles. keep in mind that it is still a powerful AAS and highly androgenic so sides like aggression, libido, acne ect can occur. It`s not candy is all im saying, but i expect you know that. I love winny and i find the dry gains are exceptional (for me better then anavar and 1/3 the cost) plus lowers SHBG to allow the rest of your gear to work better at lower doses. Also, really nice pumps. The downside to winny is i can only run 4 or 6 weeks max, my knees feel like broken glass, but i guess im just prone-sucks-other than that best of luck
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S-C-J User profile
Youve already received some GREAT answers, I was just going to chime in on Winstrol. My observation has been that the results and side effects from winny vary considerably from user to user. Some take a conservative dosage such as the one you are proposing, and experience debilitating joint pain right from the jump. Others, have basically zero side effects. In my younger more careless days, I would take between 70-100mg per day for weeks on end, while lifting heavy and grappling hours every day – absolutely no joint pain or other issues. So your approach is good – try it for yourself at a conservative dosage and see how you react, you can always jump off quickly if you run into sides.
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Big Jake User profile
Again, you got some great answers already. I like taking winny for 4 week intervals. It DOES give me elbow soreness. If I up my potassium intake it helps a little, coconut water daily. I was doing 50mg oral tabs 1/2 twice daily and got some great reults, been pretty shredded and vascular since then. Had crazy energy at the gym too. I credit a lot of my sick vascularity to the last time I did winny. I`m now doing a trt dose of test and 250mg of deca weekly to pre-lube my joints. When the gyms reopen I`ll up the doses and jump in with 4 weeks of winny. Most people like it as a finisher but I just like it in general – in moderation. You`ll probably like 30mg, try 50 for a couple days after trying 30mg for a couple weeks, see what you think. I personally was very happy with 50mg.
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Patriot User profile Expert
I`ll keep it short. Unless your prepping for a show and you`re single digit BF%, I personally don`t see the point of running winstrol myself. If you are, I`d personally drop the proviron to limit my DHT levels. If you are doing this for hobby aesthetics, just keep the proviron and skip the winstrol. Good luck bro.
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Cyclone User profile Expert
Yes, you can safely run winstrol and proviron at the same time. Usually you cannot “stack” multiple orals, but proviron has only a tiny effect on the liver and can really be run throughout your cycle. I would run Winstrol at 50-100mg mg per day for no more than 4-5 weeks. It`s a great drug that works well for many of us.
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Which do you guys prefer to use during your cuts? This or var?
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Var User profile
I’m a fan of anavar as it brings me in tight, and dry, without the sides and harsh affect of my frontal hairline.
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Mike anith User profile
If I could afford anavar I’d use it all the time. Winny is always a great thing to add to dry me out, make me look hard and much fitter than I am, but it dries my joints out and is harsh on my skin.
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Gear head User profile
I always use winny in my prep, but look at what a low dose of var can do to a woman and you see the stuff is magic.
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Kbird User profile
I love anavar!! There`s nothing better, it`s just expensive. It has every plus but very few sides.
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john smith User profile
I love my winny. I`m blessed with a thick head of hair and don`t get the sides other mention but it definitely dries the joints out and can`t hurt you if used too long
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Big Dogg User profile
Winstrol. Rather use tbol and masteron together tho. Same look, more strength. None of it matters if your diet ain`t tight tho.
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Is there a safe way to extend a Winstrol cycle to 7 or 8 weeks?
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RJB16 User profile
Are you doing Oral or injections? It is possible to extend just be mindful of the sides…
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John Rambo User profile
Depends on oral vs injectable. With injective you could run it for longer but oral i wouldn`t go longer than 5 weeks since it is very toxic on your liver
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Dr Scott User profile Expert
I will occasionally run winny for 8 weeks. Hydrate and stay away from booze, tylenol and other orals and anything else that will unduly tax your liver get some liv52, TUDCA or NAC better yet get a CMP test it will test liver and kidneys for about $50 at week 4 or 5 of the winny
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Dromeo User profile
Another two weeks won`t kill you. Just keep the doses within normal range.
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Juice24roids User profile Expert
Hey Bann, the best you can do is to take a liver protectant like Tudca, NAC or liv52 but it`s not advisable to take an oral for that long. It`s worth getting blood work done to see what your live and kidney values are at. You will get good results from coming off the orals and giving your body a break. Then when you come back on you`ll be clear and the receptors will be ready. Thanks for the question
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Pat User profile Expert
No. Why put that extra pressure on your system for extra 2 weeks. If you didn`t get the results you wanted after 6 weeks of winny something else might need tweakng. Check your diet and exercise routine.
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Okay guys. I`ve done around 3 or so cycles now with heavy research and blood work. My question is what is the absolute best liver support while on cycle? I typically take both liv 52 and tudca but I was just wanting others input. Thanks.
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Big Dogg User profile
I use Liver Health by Now supplements. You can get it locally almost anywhere or Amazon so you`ll always have it when you need it. I take that in the morning and Tudca at night. I`ve never had elevated ALT or AST except when using very toxic (M1T, etc.) orals or just too much but always correct quickly. As long as you`re taking something and checking blood you should be fine.
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Johnny Longsockz User profile
I use gear support by blackstone labs. Milk thistle and another compound by NOW
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Nathan Co User profile
On Narrows Labs .com, there is a a product called Wolverines. It`s 600mg TUDCA 500mg NAC as well as milk thistle and other Liver Support for $68 for a 30 day supply, but it`s free shipping and TJ25 is a discount code that will give you 25% off. It`s really the best put together liver support I have seen so far. I don`t work for them, but I seen this question and thought I would let you know what has been good for me. As you already probably know, TUDCA isn`t cheap. And to include NAC and Milk Thistle at proper dosing, well it`s a no brainer to me.
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Dromeo User profile
I agree with what everyone else told you. I also take tumeric and black pepper for liver support.
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Super Dad User profile
NATHAN hit it on the head but remember supplements are just that there`s supplementing when you cannot get in your diet so my advice on top of all that great knowledge is to eat right lots of fish, dark green vegetables, kale, juiceing ect. best thing we can do for our bodies has put the best food in it don`t get too hung up on supplements cuz there is no supplements for good nutrition good luck brother
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Mike Jones User profile Expert
Tudca and nac2 guard are the best liver supports you can use today
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Thanks everyone for your prompt response. I have taken Anavar, in the past I was taking 10mg a day pre workout for 5 weeks. I had great result., put on some good muscle mass while I leaned out, took 5 weeks off and wanted to try Winstrol. I`m actually small person 129Lb 5`4″. Thanks again!!!
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N88 User profile
If anavar works I`d stick with that for now or take a mild SARM. Winny has a bit more androgens vs var so you may get masculine effects from it. Start at 2.5 a day and increase by 2.5 until you get the desired results. I would not go past 10 mgs a day unless you dont care about sides. That other fella meant 50 mgs a WEEK and not daily.
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JB205 User profile Expert
Are you not wanting to run testosterone cycles or just trying to avoid injections and run orals only. It`s hard to tell by the question if you were taking test with the anavar.
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Ryan User profile
24roids is a good place to get info on products but everybody reacts differently, if anavar works great for you stick to it!
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Matthew User profile
I agree with you brother!! Var lean me out mid cycle after testE/EQ! Bulk up then lean with var. I love it. But I got 10 vials GP winny and looking forward to replace var with winny. So I agree with you on trying winny.
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Dr Scott User profile Expert
heres the funny thing that i think people forget, many of these drugs were designed to be used alone. We know that these drugs work best with a testosterone backbone for all kinds of reasons. bobybuilders and gym rats are really the only ones who “stack” hormones. Many atheletes are actually trying to avoid large size gains so they use drugs like: tbol Jon jones and the entire east german swim and gymastics team, winny- ben johnson was never the same without it and he made some amazing size gains on just winny, remember that picture of him in his running stance and his delts looked like bowling balls, he tested positive a week later for stanozolol. How about lance armstrong epo and anavar. Anyhow just saying it depends what your goals are. winny and anavar alone will probably give your decent strength gains and a little size and as everyone mentioned and probably will go away rather quickly, again all depends on your goals and the sides you are willing to tolerate
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NPC LIFE User profile
I think this is a woman on a 10mg dose. Women don`t need testosterone base. Doc Scott I respect a lot of your answers. But this one I don`t agree with. It`s not about getting better results it`s about healthy body functions of a male to have normal test levels. Do some research on health risks a man will face with a zero test level. Sex is out of the question. Men need testosterone. No question about it. Don`t do oral only cycles or you will be asking for trouble. A gym rat would take oral only cycles get some gains and risk their health for nothing. A competitor who chooses this life style will be smart and care about the long term damage that oral only can cause to multiple organs. Good luck stay safe
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Hi!I`m a female and looking into trying Winstrol, I`d like to know what would be a good dose to start. Thanks.
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nickname_537 User profile
Injectable winstrol 50mg/week, not much more, however as per the oral I`m not sure.
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Zach Linder User profile Expert
If thisis your first rodeo with Winny, 50mg probably will be too harsh. 5 – 10mg max for a first cycle of winny is plenty. this compound is very androgenic and you may experience sides at a lower dose. it`s best to always start small and learn how your body reacts and tolerates each and every compound. also, I wouldn`t run it for more than 6 weeks. Please always remember, less is more. I feel like most people on here DO NOT have experience with female cycles (my knowledge is very little as well) so PLEASE do some research or maybe even consider hiring a coach that is very well versed in female cycles. Good luck, be safe
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Zombie User profile
Nickname, you couldn’t possibly be serious, right? Suggesting that a women take 10 times the recommended safe dosage is completely irresponsible. You should stop giving advice.
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Mr.smith User profile
5mg a day and do that for about a month and then go up to 10 if everything is good. As a female the side effects are way worse and irreversible so always be cautious with new products and don`t jump right in the deep end.
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Swoll,onthe,low User profile
Get the tabs and take 1 in morning and 1 in pm to start
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Carmelo User profile
Being it`s your first cycle and you are female, o wouldn`t do more than 10mg to start with. You can always up your dose to 20mg a day if needed
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What is a good liver protection to be taken along with a cycle ?
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Will User profile Expert
Tudca is by far the best liver aid. Brings lover values back into range faster than any other supplement. Legit tudca can be difficult to find. Take a look at Morphogen Nutrition Tudca which is 3rd party tested.
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Manster User profile
Agreed that tudca is the way to go. 95 percwnt of us would probably agree on that.
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nickname_21 User profile Expert
Milk thirsty Is good and Tudca
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NPCLIFE User profile
Tudca or liv52 is the best.
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Fit_mom User profile
500mg to 1000mg a day of tudca is a great liver protectant.
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RJB16 User profile
Agreed with above, I have taken Liv 52 works very well.
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I’m starting a test only cycle just to make modest gains and help with dropping some fat. I have about 20 pounds I’d like to shed while maintaining muscle, would these tabs be a suitable addition for that goal? Also, are there any better alternatives for cutting, especially one I could draw in the same syringe as my sustanon?
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eric tarrant User profile
i read in great cutting cycle in md mag istest enaanthate 300Mg a weektrenbolone acetate 75 mg a weekamastrozole 1 mg a dayclenbuterol 20 mg a dayt3 cytomel 25mcg daily
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RJB User profile
With the addition of Clen and/or T3 you should be good. Remember thou as stated here many times there is no magic pill. .. . Diet has to be on point and train and rest, you will be great.
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mchilds User profile
I wouldn’t waste money on winstrol yet. It won’t cut fat it will simply dry you out. I would stick with test and T3 and/or Clen for 12-16 weeks. Diet and do cardio. That will give you a great start. Then PCT and then a second cycle where you could add in a second compound on top of the test such as tren and Winstrol. I would do injectable Winstrol. You can drink the winstrol vials since it’s water based if you wanted but tabs don’t work as well for me. I also use Yohimbe and ECA instead of Clen because I’ve heard too much bad stuff about it. T3 has a high safety profile.
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LegacyLifter User profile
Winstrol will NOT cut fat. It will drop water weight and make you look leaner than you are while on cycle. It can also cause joint pain and be extremely harsh to your liver and heart. If you`re gonna do it then 20 mg/day preworkout is all you need for 6 weeks. I recommend T3 with a caffeine/ephedrine stack. Clen is harsh as well.
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Greg Landes User profile
Winstrol will drop water weight, it will not cut fat. When your body is hoding excess water it makes you look smooth and undefined. The winstrol will help get you stronger and remove water from your muscles, making them look more defined. 4-6 weeks at 40 mg’s per day along with your test. Make sure you get a good liver support as it is a harsh methalated in the 17th position.
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Anonymous User profile
No, add 200mg tren e a week instead. Tren is a very well know muscle builder and fat burner