Hey, was wondering if using NPP does the same rule apply as with Deca, half the NPP/Deca to the amount of test? Any experienced info or advice is appreciated. Thank you in advance
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EDubz User profile
I wouldnt say it`s a rule that Deca should be ran at half of what your test is. I would say just make sure your test is a bit higher than the Deca. Like 750 test and 500 deca is fine. I always just make sure my test is higher but not necessarily double. NPP will be a bit stronger mg. To mg. Than Deca because of the shorter ester. In other words you dont need as much NPP as you would regular Deca. Just like you dont need as much test Prop as you would test E or C. Hope that makes sence to you. Good luck.
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MichaelSmith User profile
There is no 2/1 deca rule. That would mean to take 400 deca you would need800 year which I can assure you is not the case. If anything it`s closer to 1/1 ratio with test being like 500/600 and deca being around 400-500.
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Mr and Mrs J User profile
I believe the “rule” you speak of is just to keep your test higher than deca. Thats mostly to prevent deca dick. Its mostly anecdotal though, I don`t run my test lower than my nandralone. And I prefer npp. I got deca dick before on nandralone decanoate running higher than test. No problems on npp with at least an equal ratio. I`m currently on 525mg test and 525mg of npp and no ed problems
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JamesEarl User profile Expert
It doesn`t have to be half of testosterone, maybe equal or more testosterone because testosterone also serves as a base bodily requirement while on cycle, and is naturally occurring off cycle. NPP is nandrolone like Deca is but causes less bloat and is in and out of your system faster. NPP would require like every other or every 3rd day pinning.
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crazy Dan User profile Expert
There no rule with the proportionality between 2 gear but there`s a sweet spot than works for the 2 gear together with most people and especially YOU. This is why experienced brothers know when and what gabe then best result or gain and they spread the love out to all of us! That being said, Test and deca combo or stack usually have a sweet spot or at least a starting point for beginners is test 500mg per week and deca 300mg per week. Test at 500mg is when most guys performed many cycles and found 500mg to get the job done and especially beginners have had done test only at the mg not to give them estrogen sides. Deca with its own set of sides especially elevated prolactin, seems to work at 300mg per week. 400mg works too but then get sides or fear of getting sides like deca dick 🙂 so 300mg seem to be best starting point. After many deca cycle they increase dosage. That`s the proportionality strategy. 500mg testE to deca 300mg starting point. Now with NPP it is the short ester of phenylpropionate compare to long ester decanoate. NPP need to be pin ed or eod so brothers pin less mg per pins. Since it`s less mg per pin it has a less propensity to give them sides. So bros match npp with testp. pinning less but more frequent is a strategy to not getting sides or lower sides. And lastly npp has a short ester which has less atoms as compare to long ester which has more atoms. Carbon atoms in particular are the heaviest in what we are talking about and not hydrogen. There fore mg per mg between npp and deca, nandrolone which is the active molecule in nandrolone phenylpropionate and nanodrlone decanoate is more in npp per mg compare to same mg in deca. So you need less npp to get you what you need compare to deca. Hope that answer your questions brother! Don`t forget to vote.
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JohnSmith User profile
Nandrolone is a very suppressive compound. The only difference in npp And deca is the esters, deca and prop. Therefore it breaks down and exits faster. I still always pin more test than deca and npp.
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Hello. I have run npp test cycles before and they work good. I`ve also ran winstrol for cutting. I`m wondering if anyone`s ever stacked npp with winstrol and test? What do people think about that for next cycle? Looking for the bulk and cut combo as summers here.
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Patriot_1234 User profile Expert
Hey Grizg, when you say bulk and cut combo I believe you are meaning the first portion is gaining weight and then you want to shed some fat before getting of AAS? If so, then yes you realistically can finish your cutting phase with winstrol no problem. I would suggest dropping the NPP at the end if you`re lean and trying to get grainy (my opinion) but it`s your choice. Try masteron in the future, its easier on the joints (elbows!) IMO but some people don`t have issues with winstrol. Good luck.
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Hi guys, im 26 5`10 160lbs approximately 12% bf. I`ve been working out for a while now and have always been kind of a hard gainer so I was hoping to through on some extra poundage via a cycle. I have done one low dose test only cycle before with very little side effects and was hoping to step it up a little bit with a 10week cycle of test e 250 I was thinking 500mg of test e a week and have a few vials of this npp 100 on hand as well. Just wondering if there`s a reccomened cycle and dosage where I can combined these two and also a line out of what my pct should look like with said cycle. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Just looking to do this thing right. TIA
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POOKIE2 User profile
Since your first cycle was low dose test, recommend your second cycle be just test at 400-500 mgs a week for 12-14 week. Possibly the third you can add little NPP at 100 mgs three times a week….300 mgs total per week. A 500 test/300 NPP cycle works really well but keep in mind its ideal to pin NPP at least 3 times a week. Have caber on hand for NPP in case prolactin creeps up. Also as you know keep an AI on hand in case of high estrogen. For PCT coming off a light cycle I`m a fan of 5000 IUs total over the course of 16 days at the end. You would start HCG two days BEFORE your very last injection at 750/750/750/750/500/500/500/500 every other day; then clomid 100/100/50/50 srarting approx 14 days after last injection. 100 mgs daily the first week, 100 second, 50 third 50 forth. Good luck….stay swole!
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A19 User profile
I agree with Pookie. Stick to the test for your second cycle and increase the dose to 500mg. That`s a sweet spot for most novices. Pookie also nailed with with your third cycle and PCT. couldn`t have said it better myself. Hope that helps. Don`t forget to vote by clicking the up arrow by my name. Thanks.
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Joeskee User profile
Yes definitely take the npp with the test. Npp works great for most people less side affects and great pumps and feel great overall and definitely bump up ur test to 250mg twice a week Monday and Thursday and in include the npp with the test and trust me u will see great results. Good luck brother
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Hello, when running this, do you need any kinda estrogen blockers. I am gyo prone so what is recommended… Also, what test is good to combine it with… Tks.
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Branko User profile
I`m sure you`ll get some different answers, but I`d go with a fast ester of test like prop. Deca can increase prolactin levels so have caber on hand and also arimidex for estrogen.
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Dr Scott User profile Expert
Hey spanky, Branko is right you will prolly get lots of different answers, Durabolin does not aromatize as much as say testosterone at normal doses so it alone will likely not elevate your estrogen too badly, but does typically raise progesterone and/or prolactin both of which can cause gyno if you are prone. So you could use caber, bromocriptine or even vitamin B6. You might also need an AI for the testosterone that you are likely running with it. If it were me i would begin with nolvadex the second i have any pain or tenderness in the breast, it works quickly and effectively halts gyno regardless of it is prolactin, progesterone or estrogen causing the problem. then add caber or an AI as you deem necessary. but you may only need nolva, pretty much all i ever use for gyno. good luck hope this helps
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Patriot User profile Expert
Both comments above are solid. Without knowing the dosage per week it`s hard to really say what exactly will happen, but just be prepared with ancillary support. If this is your first time, I would say no more than 400mgs/wk along with a similar Test base. Good luck bro.
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Will User profile Expert
If you`re gyno prone, you would be best suited to have an AI on hand on case you need to use it. You said yourself that your gyno prone, so you have experience with AAS. So whatever doses gave you gyno side effects, you know at what dose or higher you`ll need an AI. But its smart to always have an AI on hand in case you have estrogenic side effects.
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Barry Gibson User profile
Everybody is different. Some are estrogen side effect prone while others are not. You have to see for yourself. But on a miniscule dose like that I doubt anybody will need an ai. Bottom line is do not use an ai unless you need it. Crashing your estrogen is not a good thing man.
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POOKIE User profile
Sparky, an AI doesn`t assist with this product. NPP (GP Phenyl) doesn`t increase your estrogen like test or a few other compounds do. However it can cause Gyno as Dr Scott explained due to high prolactin levels; which can be controlled via caber. If you stay at 400 mgs or lower you should be ok without taking caber but definitely keep it on hand. Good luck
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I already have some nandrolone decanate on hand. I`m wondering if I can take the NP to kickstart the cycle and then transition to the decanate 3 to 4 weeks in? If anyone has experience doing this please let me know. I`m thinking I`d like to run the ND at 300 a week. Just for background this is my 3rd cycle. First was low dose test then test e at 500 a week this time I want to runt 500 dust. and 300 nandrolone decanate but use the npp to kickstart and because it`s cheap right not. AI and pct on hand
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Dr Scott User profile Expert
Sounds like you have thought it through, I`ve never done that (i have used both compounds alone quite a bit though) but i certainly don`t see any reason why you couldn`t or even shouldn`t. Both are just esters of nandrolone so why not. In fact probably not a bad idea, i may do something like that in the future. You can kind of get the best of both compounds and kind of get a side by side comparison, plus the whole kickstart thing from the NPP. Keep in mind that most people dose the NPP more frequently then Deca so as you transition into the deca you probably want to stretch out the dosing interval (I imagine that you are aware of that, just being complete), but other than that it seems like solid plan. Best of luck, i think you will do fine.
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POOKIE User profile
Agree with Dr Scott and also feel this is a good idea if you want effects to start right away. These days I just wait for deca to kick in and might jump start with an oral. However a few years ago I pinned test and deca twice a week then separately ran 1 ML of NPP EOD the first 2 weeks then slowly tapered off the following 2 weeks. I think it worked pretty good, but lots of sticks and haven`t done it since. Regardless good luck with these compounds–deca or NPP with test is my fav cycle and Im sure you`ll be digging on it also.
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Would this produce less progesterone sides than Deca?
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Dr Scott User profile Expert
On paper it should not have any different progesterone or prolactin sides then regular deca. Both are just esters of the parent compound nandrolone. Nandrolone is biologically inactive until the decanoate or phenylpropionate esters are cleaved respectively. Once that occurs the compound becomes biologically active and is exactly the same-nandrolone. So the key difference/benefit is the time that it enters and exits the body, NPP being much quicker on both counts. Having said that lots of guys report that it is more effective and less sides then the original deca, so i take that into account. Me, i never noticed a huge difference in efficacy or sides between the two compounds, but everyone is different. So to answer your question directly, no it should not have less progesterone sides then deca but lots of guys report that it does and just because it`s in a book does not mean that is what happens in real life -all the time. Either way, i would have some caber, viagra (the major side being impotence) and an AI on hand just in case-but you may not need any of it-i never have.
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nickname_21 User profile Expert
Yes it would in theory becuase it gets in your system faster and leaves your system faster. But some people are just proned to getting it and still may need to take extra percuatuons
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POOKIE User profile
As mentioned by Dr Scott technically there should be zero difference. Many would argue this based on experience, but I used both dozens of times and there is no difference in my opinion beyond NPP hitting your system alot quicker. Regardless both are fantastic compounds and most will not get bad side effects unless running higher dosages. Keep caber ready just in case. Good luck
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Will User profile Expert
Like Dr. Scott said, it theoretically shouldn`t have any different results because they are both Deca, however that`s not always the case and your own personal genetics might come into play. I have seen prolactin sides from Deca when getting up to a certain dose. I have not seen prolactin sides from either of the two NPP cycles I`ve ran. I like NPP more but sometimes go back to Deca because I dont like the injection frequency.
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So I want to take advantage of mega sale and need to get a bulk cycle.ordering this week once Test E make potw .should I grab 10 Npp from geneza? nd what dose npp for bulking? Or pay regular price for deca or EQ?
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JD Cycle User profile Expert
Deca and NPP are the same, just different esters. Kind of like Test Prop vs Test Enan. If you`re going to run Test E, might as well run Deca so you can pin them twice a week vs Test E twice a week and NPP EOD. If you want to run NPP, might as well run Test Prop. All depends on how many shots a week you want.
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Drew User profile
Npp take 100mgs eod it will hit you quicker than regular deca and you should definitely bulk up if you eating enough. Also get some caber Incase of sides from the deca. Also would run arimidex.5mgs eod.
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Tren_for_everybody User profile Expert
Npp and deca are the same thing with different esters. I`ve never seen gp npp this cheap, take advantage of it. 300mg a weeks is enough for some solid bulking.
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Swoleville User profile
I love npp it`s my favorite compound. Run it at 100mg eod with test prop 125mg eod. Run arimidex .25mg 3xs per week.
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Mr.t User profile
It`s the same as Deca. I would save money and just buy that. There are plenty of other cycles left to pay full price.
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Trenbologna sandwich User profile
I like Deca but I really love Tren. And if you want to stock up on a deal geneza tren ace is product of the week so grab it tonight before sale ends!
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Is it ok to draw this GP Phenyl 100 and GP Sust 270 in the same pin?
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RNPCLIFE User profile
As long as they are both oil bases absolutely. You can not mix oil and water base
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EDubz User profile
Yes I always draw the different oils in the same pin, perfectly fine, I just wouldn`t inject more than 3ml in one spot at once…
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Beard User profile
I always mix into 1 pin. As stated above depending on muscle size u wouldn`t want to put more then 2.5-3cc into 1 spot
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Jasonz User profile
Yes no problem. Oil based compound with another. I wouldnt put to many ml,s though in the one shot.Good luck.
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novadesert007 User profile
I always use the same pin for all my stack. I would stay within 2ml. Oh well maybe you`re 250lbs and you can handle it well. I would spread out the dosage for blood to be as stable as possible. The key is using the least gears and get the most gain. Started low and work your way up to your needs. Don`t start huge and then cut back cause then you dont see the same results.
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Will User profile Expert
Yes, mixing both is fine. You can mix oil based compounds.
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All these tests are like 4 years old or on other items 2 years old! What if a company sends in accurately dosed items for testing a couple years back and then sells fake or underdosed items later while using the “original” lab test? What`s with this?? Honest responses will be very appreciated guys!
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Johnny User profile
That`s way to much to do to fake a product when they can sell the legit stuff and make a huge profit. Nais gear is quality. I wouldn`t worry about purchasing from them
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N88 User profile
This is the risk we take but i can vouch and say for several years i have not every rec`d any bad gear or any of my friends either….ever. My bloodwork always comes back fully dosed products and compound effects are always on point.
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Test Case User profile
you could run your own labs… there`s always a risk..in fact you you be surprised to know how often that . what you would concider REAL pharmaceutical companies would get caught with fake or under dosed and unclean product.. there`s always a risk….. fly blind or pay for lab work.. …the only safe sex is not to have sex..
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K-Nine User profile
The others are right, the only way you’ll ever be sure any gear is real and dosed appropriately is to get your bloodwork done. That being said, I personally have never received any questionable product from 24roids. Hope this helps
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nickname_111 User profile Expert
Geneza and Dragon have been for a long time and earning a good reputation is not easy in this line of business. One bad cycle and you never ever buy that brand again. Plus the products that they are producing are very cheap. Test e for example costs less than $2 to cook at home for them being big producers it has to be substantially less. It doesn`t make sense for them to cheap out on $1 raw material and ruin their reputation so they make a buck more on the products. Handful of brands have taken over the market for being consistent.
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Unc33135 User profile
There are at home test u could buy yourself. While these tests only say if the compound is present or not and not the dosage, its still useful. Ive never had a problem here. I get the side effects and have had bloodwork done before. Alot of compounds are so cheap to make that faking them doesnt even make sense. Its compounds like anavar and primo that are faked often and might just be dbol or test labeled as those products.
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Thinking about running this… i have cycles under my belt just never this.. how long is it ran? How often and how much is sufficient enough
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K.D.T User profile
It`s usaly ran 8 to 10 weeks it`s the same as deca just with a short eater atached to it so you can run shorter cycles 300 to 400 is a good to start with
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anon5_uk User profile Expert
NPP is same compound as deca, you`ll just have to pin it more often since it`s a shorter ester. And propionate will give you more PIP too, so you should expect that as a side effect.
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N88 User profile
Same dose as deca just gotta pin it EOD and it kicks in right away. 300 mgs a week is a good starting point if you havent used deca before
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Adam22 User profile
I usually try to shoot for a 2:1 ratio or at least close so at 600 mg test. 300-400 mg nandrolone. Npp is the shorter ester of nandrolone and needs to be injected every other day to keep bloods stable. Also you get more nandrolone out of npp due to the loghter ester so with npp id go for 300 mg to 600 testosterone. Decanoate id probably do 400mg to 600 mg testosterone for about 12-16 weeks
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Mike Jones User profile Expert
This is still nandrolone so the same as deca but just with a short ester attached instead of a long one ie the decanoate ester. You will run it the same mg amounts as you would deca but just more frequently just like you inject tren ace ed or eod vs 1-2 times/week with tren enth
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YD1 User profile
Hey bud. You want to pin this every day or 2nd day. Its deca but faster acting short ester. Good luck bud.
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I`ll be be running Test E 800mg weekly with 5wks of T-bol and 12wks of npp (9th cycle btw). Question is, I have more than enough arimidex, but some cabaser left from my last cycle of tren/mast. I won`t be doing any crazy npp dosages seeing as I`ve never ran it before, should I buy more cabaser or will the arimidex/test keep me comfy. I`ve been relatively lucky on my other cycles with low sides, basic bacne is about it for me. Just getting some other opinions, thanks.
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Swoleville User profile
I like to run npp 100mg and test prop 150mg eod in same syringe. Arimidex. .25. 3x per week and caber .5 2x per week
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Johnny Longsockz User profile
I would def order more caber. I wasn`t so lucky and got sides because of no caber and boy did it suck lol
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anon5_uk User profile Expert
If you have sufficient caber left then no need to. Should you start getting sides, take your left-over caber and order new supply. The old caber will last you till the package arrives.
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nickname_564 User profile Expert
I`m one of the lucky ones, I never needed Caber when I`m taking deca or npp or tren. You might not need also. Deca is more likely to cause prolactin build up than npp because of its long half life it can really build up in the body. You didn`t mention how much npp a week you will be pinning but since you have never ran npp before I suggest you have some on hand just in case.
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N88 User profile
Depends on how much NPP. If you`re gonna do like 300 a week you should need very little ot no caber. Regardless I`d get some on order from Europe just in case. Your AI will only help with estrogen control
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LongIslandBEAST User profile
Depends on how much you have left since you will only need about 0.5mg a week. If your running eight weeks you will only need 4mg which is a couple cabaser pills at a high dose. That’s a lot of test so make sure you grab some Aromasin.
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Is 10 weeks at 400 a week a good dose or should I use deca? What is preferred or deca
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GainsVille_85 User profile
Same hormone different ester which effects the active life of the hormone. NPP is better suited for tested athletes who need the hormone out of their system by a certain date. DecaDurabolin would be the more economical choice, but NPP is awesome to run.
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anon5_uk User profile Expert
Deca is preffered over NPP. Way more popular, slower releasing ester than NPP. Pin 300-500 mg/week with your test base.
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salvatore pellegrino User profile
because you ask the question best answer is TESTOSTERONE ONLY 200 -300 WK. SUS 250 1 X WKLY IS A GOOD START. see how well you respond to that. every 1st cycle should be test only go for 4 -6 months if you like.i expect you already trained and ate and slept well for 3 or 4 years NATURAL first.after test only add something mild in the injection and go to 2 x wkly after a 30 day no juice time.mild is all the stuff girls can take.250 sus 100 masteron 2 x wkyou feel good and get strong and add muscle. WORK EAT SLEEP & INJECT JUICE MILDLY
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Swoleville User profile
I run npp a lot. I like it over decca. Less bloat and I don`t get decca dick. It`s an awesome compound if you don`t mind pinning 100 mg eod
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Alexander Kreyman User profile
If this is your first cickle 350 a week will be fine, if not you can do 500.
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michael patsalou User profile
See how you go with test only first.
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Does this give you the same sides as deca? Like deca dick?
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Will User profile Expert
This is a nandrolone, so the same thing as Deca other than it absorbs after and runs through your system faster. Expect the same results, just more frequent injections. Some people have noted less water retention, but that`s person dependent.
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Don O User profile Expert
Nandrolone Phenylpropionate can give some guys the deca dick issue if youre sensitive to it since its the same active hormone. I personally havent ever got that problem but Ive always had testosterone included in cycles. Deca/NPP just makes me crazy strong and big.
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Lav3ga User profile Expert
Some sides are the same some are different. Deca dick, yes. You need to manage your progesterone and prolactin, get some caber. But the bloat and diet sensitivity that deca has, npp doesn`t. This is one of the reasons it is a go to for me and my athletes. It`s pretty easy to Google up a side effects profile for just about every drug on the site.
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GainsVille_85 User profile
Not a bad idea to have Caber on hand anytime you’re using a nandrolone product. I used this NPP earlier this year and I swear I was visible bigger and more muscular within a week. Awesome product.
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SocalJuicer User profile Expert
ANY 19Nor compound can give you deca dick (or tren dick respectively) – this includes deca durabolin, NPP, Trenbolone regarless of the ester (time release such as enanthate, propionate). With this in mind, you absolutely need to have Cabergoline on hand and perhaps something to manage progesterone. Everyone who takes these compounds needs to know that you run a small risk of shutting down your libido for months or YEARS after cessation.
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Anonymous 4266 User profile
npp is nandrolone same as deca nandrolone with different ester so yes you would get the same effects with loswer dose because npp is faster acting
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Has anyone had an allergic reaction to this npp? My wife did a small cycle and broke out in hives and was itchy stopped cycle immediately and all sides went away in a few days. Could it be the carrier oil?
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Tommie User profile
Yes my friend it could definitely be the carrier oil that is making her break out in hives. I’m personally allergic to grape seed oil That particular carrier oil makes me break out in a bunch of white bumps almost like pimples but there’s no whiteheads on them just red bumps. She also could be over due to the phenylpropionate or Nandrolone. You wouldn’t be able to tell unless shoe took that same oil but used a different compound if she still breaks out it’s the oil if not it’s the compounds.
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ROBERT User profile
I had the same issue and found out it was the carrier oil. It`s like a blotchy rash that I got on my back.
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nickname_537 User profile
First: females risk virilization (becomiming male like as in deep manly voice and a beard, enlarged clitoris etc) when taking steroids and these side effects are PERMANENT. You`re lucky she stopped right away. Anavar (oxandrolone) and primobolan (methonolone enanthate) are relatively mild in regards to androgenicity but exercise caution regardless because all steroids including these have an androgenic component. If anything else use low dose primobolan 25mg per week build up to 50mg per week or maybe 2. 5mg per day anavar build up to 5mg per day anavar but no more because even these can cause permanent virilization in women if overdone or in higher amounts. Now it is possible she was allergic to the oil carrier in the npp and in this case it proved a good thing because she avoided potential permanent virilization symptoms.
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N88 User profile
Def reaction to the carrier oil. Regardless there are safer compounds out there and eventho a ton of females take NPP bc of its low androgenic properties i dont recommend taking this unless all the worst risks are acceptable. SARMS work great for females also. .. .just do a ton of research before choosing what type.
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ni k User profile
there are other AAS`s she can take like anavar or primo
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RJB User profile
Have heard of like a blocky rash, maybe as stated try Anavar which is a great choice for women. .. .
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I`m 51, need to shed about 20lbs, will NPP be sufficient and what should I add, I train 4xweek
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The consultant
Eat clean, training dirty. The more crap you eat on this, the more likely to look like a sloppy balloon animal. Remember, and are made in the kitchen, this compound will help.
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Larry Macri User profile
Trenbolone better for cutting
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evan johnson User profile Expert
Losing weight is primarily related to diet and can be done with a variety of different anabolics. I would personally recommend trenbolone over NPP but either can be acceptable.
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Mike Jones User profile Expert
Eat clen and tren dirty, as always with anything make sure you have test as your base I would personally run test/npp/var/and clen step up the cardio
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Eddie Haul User profile
Well you should always add test then you can add whatever else you want but it really comes down to diet and training.